Should we have a Character Re-specification ?

[Shamguard]

This topic came up in a recent party with someone going on about how we need to be given a way to re-spec our older characters, or at least redo our skill points, because of all the changes Turbine has made to the game.
After thinking about it for awhile I have decided that no, we don’t need a re-spec.
Of course I know the first argument for re-spec always is based upon all of the bound equipment that a character has. I am amazed at the volume of bound equipment some people have accumulated on their characters. I realize that there has been a serious commitment to playing a game here. These people will be seriously hurt if for some reason Turbine made a change that affected their character build. Then how much of the bound equipment you have is because of the way the game is/was, and how much of that equipment are you going to have to replace anyway if you re-spec?
What it comes down to, to me, is that people want to have new high level characters without have to grind new characters from 1st level. I have been in favor of Turbine giving us some kind of mechanic that allows us to start at a higher level (5-7) I have also found that many times I can see flaws in a build in these lower levels that I can fix and rebuild the character before I make a serious commitment, in time and resources, to the build.
As with everything else in DDO I think this is a wait and see issue but I was interested in other people’s ideas in the area also.


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[Rommalb]

I agree. Simply put the only thing re-speccing really lets you do is re-allocate skill points, and frankly Turbine hasn't done anything to the game that should have changed your skill point outlook in a great way. The biggest skill change is with trap finding and busting but frankly I have no problem with punishing the mutt builds in that regard.

The only other thing re-speccing would change is your starting ability points, but given the enhancement sets and the availability of stat items its not very hard to make do with whatever you chose in the first place, especially if your already so committed to the game. So what if your not as min-maxed as possible, some of the best characters have versatility in them

[moorewr]

I don't know... it could be a reward for 2500 favor.. or a premium services thing. It's nothing I've ever thought I'd use though...

[Shyv]

Character re-spec: No.

Shroud Deconstruction: Yes

If a change to the way monk wisdom bonus is applied than I am going to have an issue with Turbine. Enough to quit, not likely, but I will be more likely to give another game a look. And the reason is simple.

I constucted a character based on the way Turbine designed, tested, and implemented the monk class and any splash associated with it. I invested time, tomes, plat, and shroud ingrediants based on the way they implemented it and left it as WAI since the launch of the monk and through an entire Module that followed. I even went a step further and checked on the way the wisdom bonus works on the D&D wiki and from the way I read the rule it is implemented correcty.

Now in the entire time that the uproar has been taking place on the forums about how overpowered it is the Devs have stayed silent on the matter making it seem like it's WAI. And the uproar is about how it gives dex builds the best of both worlds, dps and ac, and how it isn't like that in PnP.

Well a lot of people splash monk for the same reason in PnP, the difference being that in PnP you don't have multiple stats over 30 like we do in DDO. So you don't see the huge discrepancy in PnP that you do in DDO. So the D&D purists and S&B zealots come out of the woodwork calling for a nerf to the way it works. That if it were their campaign they would never allow it.

So fine, change the way it works to bring some balance to S&B and the Dex builds. But you had best damn well bring the to-hit of the mobs down with it. Make it so an AC in the mid 50-60 is good and a 60+ is exceptional. Don't lower the top end AC's while keeping the to-hits so outlandish. All that does is get everyone wearing robes since AC doesn't matter.

And if the change is to make it so you have to be centered in order to get the wisdom bonus than do me a favor and add shroud deconstruction so I can change my dual lightning II rapiers into kama's and salvage 48 larges.

Will the change of this magnitute kill my ranger? No, because I can adapt to make the character fit the new rule set. But the loss of 48 large ingrediants would really turn me off to the game.

Sorry, that was slightly off topic. But it's been bothering me. :o

[Shamguard]

Character re-spec: No.

Shroud Deconstruction: Yes

If a change to the way monk wisdom bonus is applied than I am going to have an issue with Turbine. Enough to quit, not likely, but I will be more likely to give another game a look. And the reason is simple.

I constucted a character based on the way Turbine designed, tested, and implemented the monk class and any splash associated with it. I invested time, tomes, plat, and shroud ingrediants based on the way they implemented it and left it as WAI since the launch of the monk and through an entire Module that followed. I even went a step further and checked on the way the wisdom bonus works on the D&D wiki and from the way I read the rule it is implemented correcty.

Now in the entire time that the uproar has been taking place on the forums about how overpowered it is the Devs have stayed silent on the matter making it seem like it's WAI. And the uproar is about how it gives dex builds the best of both worlds, dps and ac, and how it isn't like that in PnP.

Well a lot of people splash monk for the same reason in PnP, the difference being that in PnP you don't have multiple stats over 30 like we do in DDO. So you don't see the huge discrepancy in PnP that you do in DDO. So the D&D purists and S&B zealots come out of the woodwork calling for a nerf to the way it works. That if it were their campaign they would never allow it.

So fine, change the way it works to bring some balance to S&B and the Dex builds. But you had best damn bring the to-hit of the mobs down with it. Make it so an AC in the mid 50-60 is good and a 60+ is exceptional. Don't lower the top end AC's while keeping the to-hits so outlandish. All that does is get everyone wearing robes since AC doesn't matter.

And if the change is to make it so you have to be centered in order to get the wisdom bonus than do me a favor and add shroud deconstruction so I can change my dual lightning II rapiers into kama's and salvage 48 larges.

Will the change of this magnitute kill my ranger? No, because I can adapt to make the character fit the new rule set. But the loss of 48 large ingrediants would really turn me off to the game.

Sorry, that was slightly off topic. But it's been bothering me. :o

What DDO is missing is some of the multi-class restrictions that are in PnP. Both Monk and Paladin have the once you leave you can't come back restriction that seems to help mitigate some of the worst multi-class abuse. :p

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[Shyv]

What DDO is missing is some of the multi-class restrictions that are in PnP. Both Monk and Paladin have the once you leave you can't come back restriction that seems to help mitigate some of the worst multi-class abuse. :p

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Except that when you leave that class you still retain all of your abilities.

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

Nothing said about loosing your AC bonus when weilding non-monk weapons

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

[Shamguard]

Yes, of course we all know that the only effect of alignment in DDO is equipment selection. :p

If your monk starts to steal, murder, or perform other chaotic acts there is no penalty for this so the whole no longer lawful thing is just an interesting note.:p


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[Shyv]

Yes, of course we all know that the only effect of alignment in DDO is equipment selection. :p

If your monk starts to steal, murder, or perform other chaotic acts there is no penalty for this so the whole no longer lawful thing is just an interesting note.:p


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Yeah I just copied the whole passage, lazy I know. :p The emphasis was on the multiclass part and that the implementation of the monk wisdom bonus is working correctly and was implemented correcty for not only the monk, but any splashes also.

[Shamguard]

Yeah I just copied the whole passage, lazy I know. :p The emphasis was on the multiclass part and that the implementation of the monk wisdom bonus is working correctly and was implemented correcty for not only the monk, but any splashes also.

The only real issue is that there is no control over when and under what conditions a character is allowed to take monk levels. Without a live DM to put limits and to maintain that the character stays lawful a monk can become over powered.
Is this a real problem in DDO, I don't think so.
This is such an over powered campain that the implementation of monk really is lost in the noise.


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[Agahnim]

Don't forget preferred classes and multi-class XP penalties. That too would control crazy multi-classing.

[Shyv]

Don't forget preferred classes and multi-class XP penalties. That too would control crazy multi-classing.

Only to a very small degree as Xp is very easy to come by. At most it would slow down the leveling train by a little bit.

[Agahnim]

Only to a very small degree as Xp is very easy to come by. At most it would slow down the leveling train by a little bit.


I would think it would make people think a little more about their characters. I've heard a lot of grumblings about recalling out because he/she doesn't want a reentry penalty (10% if memory serves). I would think a constant 50% penalty would really make players reconsider some choices.

[Coldin]

Limitless XP + XP Penalties = Capped Characters. It wouldn't change a thing.

[Sidhearcher]

I think allowing a person to respec their character is a bad idea.

[nakano]

Pandora's box should stay closed IMO. That being said I am seriously in favor of some form of shroud deconstruction, even if it has SERIOUSLY diminishing returns.

[Sidhearcher]

re: shroud item deconstruction.
Maybe if they made it so that the blank itself was destroyed, or something, and it cost a certain amount of ingredients just to do the deconstruction, so that you did have a cost, just not as steep as the amount of ingredients that originally went into it.
I dunno, but I also think that being able to break down a shroud item should get implemented, somehow.

[Coldin]

I can get behind that idea. I think losing maybe 1/3 of the ingredients used would be fair.

[moorewr]

Yes.. anything between just the blank (and some special new ingredient or ingredients to break it apart) to the blank plus random ingredients.

Access to the eldritch device for this could be a favor reward.. or be in some tedious location like a quest in the new endgame content...

[nakano]

I would suggest that the blank is done, the shards are done and then a % of the ingredients are returned. Somewhere between 50-75% would seem to be fair to me.

That would keep the grind in place(shards and vale ingredients) while returning a significant portion of the investment back to the character.

Beyond that a vendor to exchange ingredients similar to the GH relics would also be awesome, though this is totally unrelated rather then being a tangent.

[moorewr]

Good point - I certainly agree you lose the shards and energy cells.

[Shyv]

Loss of the blank, Energy Cells, and Shards of Power is a more than sufficient loss in the deconstruction of a shroud item.

That would require the running of 5 quests, 10 if TWF, to make the blank and a regrind of the shroud for the Shard of Power, Great Power, and Supreme Power. Seems like a fair amount of work right there.

[nakano]

Trying to think harsh enough that a dev might actually get behind such an idea. While I would prefer a full return of shroud ingredients, honestly I think that a diminished return would be an easier sell, and infinately preferable to what we have now.

[Shamguard]

The only way I see Turbine allowing deconstruction of Shroud Items would be to just return all or some of the the unbound ingredients used. If they returned the signet stone this, would in effect, allow you to transfer a bound item to another character once you created a new green steel item. This seems to be something that Trubine is against.
Because of Turbine's attitude towards bound items I think if they give us a deconstruct option it will probably only be slightly better than selling the item and regrinding for what we use.


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