LilBitt

[Jules]

This is my first attempt at an assassin/rogue - before I eat a tome for dex of 15 to get 2wf please review the build to see if she is going to do be able to do the standard trapsmithing plus deal damage in sneak attack etc.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.00
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

LilBitt
Level 3 Chaotic Good Halfling Female
(3 Rogue)
Hit Points: 44
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 2\2
Fortitude: 4
Reflex: 6
Will: 3

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 3)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 12 12
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 3)
Balance 6 6
Bluff 1 1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 5 5
Disable Device 6 11
Haggle 5 7
Heal 1 3
Hide 4 8
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 3 7
Listen 2 4
Move Silently 5 10
Open Lock 6 11
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 9
Spot 5 7
Swim 1 1
Tumble n/a 4
Use Magic Device 5 7

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


So my questions are to be able to umd pretty reliably - deal out the sneak attack damage and trapsmith are these base stats good enough? Will I be better off re-rolling with different stats? Should my level ups be in str or int? I'm not adverse to taking a level or two of ftr or something else.

Thanks,
Jules

[jrpfactors]

you got no str increase it to 16/17+ , not enough dex start at least 15+, decrease wis, and decrease con starting stats

incr str, increase dex to at least 15, eat a +2 tome you need 17 dex at least for greater 2weapon fighting, increase starting points in str and max strength at levels for DPS

[Thorzian]

strength for dps? on an assassin sneak attack is almost all of your dps. you will need to hit, however. i would agree with jrp about the dex increase and get weapon finesse. that way you could lower your strength to get the points to put there. and im curious about the 12 charisma as well. those points might be better used in intel (or even more dex) if you dont have a specific reason for charisma.

[jrpfactors]

STRENGTH, yes for DPS, unfortunatley most rogues go finesse and dont have top end dps, go strength based and you will have DPS

jrp

[Jundak]

Are you planning on taking one of the PrE lines? I'd have to know that, before I could comment on whether your build needs tweaking, Jules. I'd also need to know if you'd be going for burst DPS (i.e., hit and run) during combat or do you plan to sit tight next to the main tanks...

Unfortunately, how you plan to behave in combat (and still be good at it) will directly affect your trapbusting and UMD skills as a rogue until you are able to nail down raid and GS items.

[Thorzian]

i dont want to sit here arguing with jrp so this will be my last comment on this. a current top end assassin, while hitting a sneak attack, hits just as hard as a raged barbarian on a regular (non crit) hit. mid 40's to 60ish. that is just the sneak attack.

not everybody can +2 tome all stats to hit ideal numbers, and since even 32 point builds are stretched thin, choices have to be made. going from the 13 strength you currently have listed to a 16 that jrp suggested will give you +2 damage per hit....wow, +2. lets call it 20 even. +4 damage per hit compared to 13 strength. and now, to get that 20 strength you have sacrificed intel or dex (or both) hmmm. seems to me rogues need intel and dex.

the strength based rogue does more damage, sure... when he doesnt miss. the rogues bab is pretty sad after all. a dex/finesse build (especially a halfling) rarely misses, and if aggro is controlled at all, pounds out the sneak attack damage. but who am i to argue with numbers that assume their characters only miss on a 1?

[jrpfactors]

sneak attack is great but you need to be able to get the sneak attack, I say worry about your normal swing first, if you get sneak attack its gravy

but maybe I am wrong

[Shamguard]

sneak attack is great but you need to be able to get the sneak attack, I say worry about your normal swing first, if you get sneak attack its gravy

but maybe I am wrong

At level 15 sneak attack is 8d6.

Part of being a rogue is knowing how to get your sneak attacks.

If you are playing a character that is pure or mostly rogue and you are having trouble getting sneak attacks, then maybe you need to look at how you are playing/attacking.

Diplomacy, Bluff, and patience are great tools in getting sneak attacks. The real trick is learning how to use them and when.

If you let the tanks establish agro then it is easier to get sneak attacks. Fighting from inside a firewall that keeps giving the caster the agro also works.:p

Two or more rogues playing agro-pong also works.

One of the highlights of the Shroud run we had with 5 rogues was watching Harry spin like a top trying to figure out who he was mad at. :D

Just a few ways to work sneak attack but they all require a good to hit chance and the easiest way to get that on a rogue is with weapon finesse and a high DEX. With Halfling, Elf, or Drow you can get +5 DEX with action points, all other races get +3, except Humans who can get a +4. This will give you at least another +2 to hit, plus items, tomes, and level up increase.
It is very easy to get a DEX in the low 30's. This also helps Reflex save and Armor class.

You can start with a lower strength and make up for it with items and such as you level up.

The stat that is probably the most important to a rogue is also one of the hardest to increase and that is intelligence. Intelligence is used for Search, Disable Device, Bonus Skill points, and for an Assassin it is use for the Assassinate DC. The problem is you need to establish a good intelligence early to get the most benefit from skill point bonuses. This is also the only stat that doesn't have a retroactive effect (you don't get bonus skill points for past levels). So the sooner you boost you intelligence the more you'll get from it. Plus only base stat+tomes+level up will give you extra skill points.


I know this is a bit rambling but I'm at work and a little rushed.

Anyway,

...

[moorewr]

Good thoughts, Sham.

I do agree with JRP - make sure your base attack is good, and the sneak attack will make you that much more beyond good.

I try to come in behind the tanks on my rogue, and hit diplo once I've started laying into the mobs. I love seeing intimidate and diplo symbols come up. Likewise on my tank - I'll spam intimidate to help the rogue out. and being bale to play intimidate pong? awesome sauce.

(Except around undead - they're just no fun.)

[Shamguard]

<..snip..>
(Except around undead - they're just no fun.)

That's what disruption weapons are for :p.
(Ghost touch rapier of disruption) :p

...

[Jules]

Thank you all very much for the input. I not against taking a lvl of ftr for feats etc, but will stay mostly rogue. I do not intend to consider myself a main line tank. She will also go for finesse and way of the assassin

So letting other establish aggro and choosing my targets carefully will be her way of dealing damage with full trapsmithing abilities.

The high charisma is for umd, diplo and haggle skills. :D

I did re-roll her based on a conversation I had with Sham after posting this. May split the level ups in Int and Str or maybe ust Int.

Her current stats are:

Str 13 +1 tome = 14
Dex 14 +1 tome = 15
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 10 +2 tome = 12

Max'ing still in DD/OL/UMD/Search/Spot/Haggle
Others are Diplo/Balance/Hide/move silently/Jump/swim/tumble

Thanks again,
Jules

[Shamguard]

Ja, Jules I hope I wasn't to brief with you the other night, but you caught me trying to transfer some ingredients to Pan. :p

For the most part if someone asks I will tell them how I build my rogues, but I don't like to give to much rogue build advice. Because I find of all the classes a good rogue build is more about your play style than anthing else. So a build that works well for one person may completely suck for someone else. I have also modified how I build my rogues since I started playing DDO, many of the things that I found work well in DDO I wouldn't do with a PnP rogue.

Because I've done so much PuGging I tend to build self-sufficient rogues that are first not a burden on the party and second able to step-up and deal with just about anything that comes up. So for that lots of skill points and UMD seem to be my best bet. I also tend to "theme" my rogues, it's something I did in PnP and I have stuck to it in DDO. It helps me in establishing what equipment I want for each character.

Good luck with your new assassin and have fun.