Rommalb
05-29-2008, 08:53 PM
Did we have a 4th Edition thread here? I forget, since I think we only had one on the last site Im making a new one anyway. For those of you not in the know the core rulebooks were leaked online yesterday so if you are a pirate like me you already have them, thus this thread will be my intial thoughts on the PHB (I havent read the DMG or MM yet). If you dont want 4th Ed spoiled for you till it comes out I highly suggest you stop reading right now.
alright, since apparently you do want to know here we go. You must forgive me if this rambles all over the place, Im ranting at this point. Its... different. Major changes: Races are Dragonborn, Eladrin, Elf, Halfing, Half-elves, Humans, Dwarves and Tieflings- note the lack of gnome or half-orc; classes are Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Warlord, Wizard- note the lack of Sorcerer or Monk;your Fort base save is either Str or Con; your will base save is either Wis or Cha; your Reflex base save is either Int or Dex; you only get a bonus to AC in light armor and then its either Int or Dex (wizards rejoice).
Now for some more details starting with those races. Racial bonuses are somewhat more limited, each race only gives you about 4-5 things but none of them actually give you penalities. Also each race is useful, even Half-elves are actually a good race. The loss of Gnome/Half-orc and to an extent WF is kinda odd but the ones they have do give you solid variety so I like what theyve done here.
Classes are where it gets VERY different. Leveling up does possess something of a online video-game feel that is totally unlike classic D&D... but its not bad. First off every class goes to level 30 and is split into 3 tiers, Heroic (1-10) Paragon (11-20) and Epic (21-30). As you level you get various abilites for your class split into a number of what are collectively known as 'Powers' and is furthur split into being usable at-will, per encounter, or daily. These are essentially focused feats for each class that let them use special attacks you dont get elsewhere, and trust me when I say there are a ton for each class. You do have a set number of each kinda of power you know which goes up by level, but theyre all pretty solid. The real changes come when you reach Paragon in which case you get a choice of prestige classing as it were. Each class has a number of Paragon paths that focus your power in a specific kind of way by giving you a few new abilities as well as some new Powers to choose from. Once you reach Epic theres a set of about 5 Epic Destinies anyone can choose that furthur increase your powers based on what you want.
To continue with leveling up- your HP is no longer rolled. Every class has a set number of hp they start at plus theyre con modifier and then they recieve a set number of hp each level... NOT plus their con modifier. Your skill list is significantly focused too, with even rogues having all of 5 trained skills and only about 20 skills total. Speaking of proficency in things, Weapon and Armor prof has been limited as well, each class lists specific armor they can use with proficency and weapons come in only 4 categories (simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged) but most classes only can wear up to about scalemail at start. Only the Paladin, not even the Fighter or Warlord, gets Platemale off the bat.
Then theres savign throws, everything is rolled against something else, you get standard Str vs AC to attack but all of your spells are also rolled against various defenses significantly lowering their auto-hit chance magic usually has in 3.5... but again theres a twist. Many of the Powers in each class have miss effects as well, so even if you dont "hit" them with the spell, you get a secondary effect anyway so its not all bad.
Finally for now theres the actual spell list and this is where its not your daddys or Xandeks D&D anymore. The spells come as a classes potential Powers which is great for Wizards since they get a number of spells At-will or Encounter they can burn through without a care in the world but the lists themselves are significantly, and I mean SIGNIFICANTLY, reduced. However theres a secondary type of spell known as the Ritual which Clerics and Wizards can use that lets them do less combative spells without burning Powers on them, these cover your Scrying, Crafting, Identify and so forth.
Additionally they greatly reduced the cost of a number of wands and spell materials so you dont go broke as a low level caster.
Alright, that was long as hell so I'll let it all sink in before I continue with Healing Surges, Implements and more! If theres a specific point you want me to look up let me know otherwise discuss
alright, since apparently you do want to know here we go. You must forgive me if this rambles all over the place, Im ranting at this point. Its... different. Major changes: Races are Dragonborn, Eladrin, Elf, Halfing, Half-elves, Humans, Dwarves and Tieflings- note the lack of gnome or half-orc; classes are Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Warlord, Wizard- note the lack of Sorcerer or Monk;your Fort base save is either Str or Con; your will base save is either Wis or Cha; your Reflex base save is either Int or Dex; you only get a bonus to AC in light armor and then its either Int or Dex (wizards rejoice).
Now for some more details starting with those races. Racial bonuses are somewhat more limited, each race only gives you about 4-5 things but none of them actually give you penalities. Also each race is useful, even Half-elves are actually a good race. The loss of Gnome/Half-orc and to an extent WF is kinda odd but the ones they have do give you solid variety so I like what theyve done here.
Classes are where it gets VERY different. Leveling up does possess something of a online video-game feel that is totally unlike classic D&D... but its not bad. First off every class goes to level 30 and is split into 3 tiers, Heroic (1-10) Paragon (11-20) and Epic (21-30). As you level you get various abilites for your class split into a number of what are collectively known as 'Powers' and is furthur split into being usable at-will, per encounter, or daily. These are essentially focused feats for each class that let them use special attacks you dont get elsewhere, and trust me when I say there are a ton for each class. You do have a set number of each kinda of power you know which goes up by level, but theyre all pretty solid. The real changes come when you reach Paragon in which case you get a choice of prestige classing as it were. Each class has a number of Paragon paths that focus your power in a specific kind of way by giving you a few new abilities as well as some new Powers to choose from. Once you reach Epic theres a set of about 5 Epic Destinies anyone can choose that furthur increase your powers based on what you want.
To continue with leveling up- your HP is no longer rolled. Every class has a set number of hp they start at plus theyre con modifier and then they recieve a set number of hp each level... NOT plus their con modifier. Your skill list is significantly focused too, with even rogues having all of 5 trained skills and only about 20 skills total. Speaking of proficency in things, Weapon and Armor prof has been limited as well, each class lists specific armor they can use with proficency and weapons come in only 4 categories (simple melee, military melee, simple ranged, military ranged) but most classes only can wear up to about scalemail at start. Only the Paladin, not even the Fighter or Warlord, gets Platemale off the bat.
Then theres savign throws, everything is rolled against something else, you get standard Str vs AC to attack but all of your spells are also rolled against various defenses significantly lowering their auto-hit chance magic usually has in 3.5... but again theres a twist. Many of the Powers in each class have miss effects as well, so even if you dont "hit" them with the spell, you get a secondary effect anyway so its not all bad.
Finally for now theres the actual spell list and this is where its not your daddys or Xandeks D&D anymore. The spells come as a classes potential Powers which is great for Wizards since they get a number of spells At-will or Encounter they can burn through without a care in the world but the lists themselves are significantly, and I mean SIGNIFICANTLY, reduced. However theres a secondary type of spell known as the Ritual which Clerics and Wizards can use that lets them do less combative spells without burning Powers on them, these cover your Scrying, Crafting, Identify and so forth.
Additionally they greatly reduced the cost of a number of wands and spell materials so you dont go broke as a low level caster.
Alright, that was long as hell so I'll let it all sink in before I continue with Healing Surges, Implements and more! If theres a specific point you want me to look up let me know otherwise discuss