Build Challenge! Scary Rogue Monk!

[Aexicas]

Alright, Builders, I have a challenge for you all.

What I'm looking for is the following:

1) Main Rogue; Prefer a minimum of 9 levels of rogue, 12 would be best
2) Monk Levels; at least 2, prefer 6
3) The ability to intimidate the hound/harry and survive.

Bonus points:
1) Half-Elf Race
2) 50+ AC
3) All the Preferences
4) The ability to use a shield 10th wand
5) The ability to use Heal scrolls effectively
6) If human or Half-Orc are selected, greater dragonmark of finding.

Points that don't matter to me:
1) Extra skills beyond Intim, UMD, DD, Search, Spot, OL, though H/MS are nice too.
2) Dex or Str Based
3) TA or Assassin, though Assassin is what I'm used to (and shadow fade + assassin is nice.
4) Having 3 classes. Splashing Fighter (or even paladin, in the update) for intim works for me.

Help is appreciated!

[moorewr]

I vote 19 rogue/1 monk (http://housetharashk.net/htforum/showpost.php?p=40503&postcount=27), unless you go 6 or 9 levels of monk. No reason to do 2 monk when rogue gives you evasion

Intimidate.. hmm.. paladin or fighter help with cross-classing that skill now.. matches half-elf nicely..

Survey says..: 9 monk (for ToD), 9 rogue, 2 paladin

[Aexicas]

Hm, with the change to ToD, would the 9 monk even be worth it, do you think? As a disclaimer, I'm not shooting the idea down, just, not having played a monk to 9 before (Aex is my highest at 6), at endgame, I'm not sure how well it'll land. Granted, of course, 250 damage is still pretty sexy...

[moorewr]

Hm, with the change to ToD, would the 9 monk even be worth it, do you think? As a disclaimer, I'm not shooting the idea down, just, not having played a monk to 9 before (Aex is my highest at 6), at endgame, I'm not sure how well it'll land. Granted, of course, 250 damage is still pretty sexy...

I doubt it, since much of time you will want to use weapons and not handwraps, especially on bosses (DEX, WIS and CHA are going to starve your STR for points). You'd said 6 or 9 monk, so I threw in ToD, and of course healing meditation etc that you get for going >6 monk.

12 rogue/6 monk/2 pal could be worth it for Thief-Acrobat.. which you don't care about. :p

[Aexicas]

Well, of course, the difference between TA and Assassin is really whether or not I end up going strength. (Str for TA, Dex for Assassin, for relatively obvious reasons)

Is shintao monk worth it for a qstaff user? I didn't think it was, but, again, not sure.

Oh, and as a side note, this will likely be Aex's TR, more than anything.

[JayDubya]

I'd go for 6 monk to get Ninja Spy incorporeality. 3 pally for intim, aura and immunity to fear, and the rest rogue.

Or, 6 monk/12 rogue/2 fighter for two extra feats.

IMO, you want to be dex based, weapon finesse, keep your INT and CHA as low as you can stomach so you can eek out as much STR as you can. WIS and DEX high, CON also pretty darn high.

[moorewr]

Well, of course, the difference between TA and Assassin is really whether or not I end up going strength. (Str for TA, Dex for Assassin, for relatively obvious reasons)

Is shintao monk worth it for a qstaff user? I didn't think it was, but, again, not sure.

Oh, and as a side note, this will likely be Aex's TR, more than anything.

If you are serious about intimidate, and a working AC, you need a high WIS, CHA, & DEX, icy raiments, combat expertise, finesse, etc etc.

[Aexicas]

Honestly, I'm looking for "passable" on the AC side. Aex's is sitting at 55 Right now, self buffed; That's enough for me, things miss me in Vale elite; beyond that, I doubt I'd be soloing much with this character (that's what I have Arcanes for, eh?)

Intim, though, I would like, particularly if I am going to go Half-elf. No sense in not, imo, due to the whole "two intim chance" thing. Never know, too; if they fix bluff, it might be really snazzy.

JD. I kinda like the idea of the pally blend; maybe not til 3 though (already should have immunity to disease, and GH takes care of the rest; 2 I'd think would be sufficient). Maybe I'll run with that, seems pretty survivable.

[moorewr]

I'd go for 6 monk to get Ninja Spy incorporeality. 3 pally for intim, aura and immunity to fear, and the rest rogue.

Or, 6 monk/12 rogue/2 fighter for two extra feats..

I'd take the pally over the fighter splash.. he's getting a free half-elf feat and a stack of monk bonus feats too.


Honestly, I'm looking for "passable" on the AC side. Aex's is sitting at 55 Right now, self buffed; That's enough for me, things miss me in Vale elite; beyond that, I doubt I'd be soloing much with this character (that's what I have Arcanes for, eh?)

AC is close to all or nothing.. 55-60 as a goal is OK only if it does not keep you from other goals (such as dps worth the name!).

[Eldamir]

Why splash pally or fighter just for intim? for feats, saves, etc. sure, but intim? Rogue has intim as a class skill too..

13rog/7mnk should do it nicely..

----------------------------------------------------------------
Half-Elf (1st Reincarnation) (Lawful Good)
Rogue 13 / Monk 7

Build Summary:
SpellPoints: 0
HitPoints: 381 (max: 475)
Atk: +32 (Dam: +11)
Armor Class: 62 (raid max: 79)
ASF: 0%
Saves: Fort:25 Ref:40 Will:28

Abilities: Base Points Base Tome Lvl Enh Buff Stance Final mod
STR 8 6 14 2 0 0 6 0 22 6
DEX 8 8 15 2 4 5 10 2 38 14
CON 8 4 12 2 0 0 6 -2 18 4
INT 8 6 14 2 0 0 n/a 16 3
WIS 8 4 12 2 0 2 6 0 22 6
CHA 8 6 14 2 1 0 9 n/a 26 8


Classes and Feats: Classes Raise Base Feats Class Feats
1 Rogue 1 Two Weapon Fighting
1 Half-Elven Half-Elven Dilettante: Paladin
1 Past Life Past Life: Rogue
2 Monk 1 Toughness
3 Rogue 2 Weapon Finesse
4 Monk 2 DEX Combat Expertise
5 Rogue 3
6 Monk 3 Improved Two Weapon Fighting Path of Inevitable Dominion
7 Rogue 4
8 Monk 4 DEX
9 Rogue 5 Skill Focus: Intimidate
10 Monk 5
11 Rogue 6
12 Monk 6 CHA Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons Dodge
13 Rogue 7
14 Monk 7
15 Rogue 8 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16 Rogue 9 DEX
17 Rogue 10 Opportunist
18 Rogue 11 BullHeaded
19 Rogue 12
20 Rogue 13 DEX Opportunist


Enhancements:
Elven Dexterity I
Elven Dexterity II
Racial Toughness I
Racial Toughness II
Monk Wisdom I
Monk Wisdom II
Monk Way of the Tenacious Badger I
Monk Way of the Tenacious Badger II
Monk Ninja Spy I
Improved Hide I
Improved Hide II
Improved Move Silently I
Improved Move Silently II
Improved Jump I
Improved Jump II
Improved Tumble I
Improved Tumble II
Improved Intimidate I
Improved Intimidate II
Improved Intimidate III
Improved Intimidate IV
Rogue Assassin I
Rogue Assassin II
Rogue Dexterity I
Rogue Dexterity II
Rogue Dexterity III
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Subtle BackStabbing I
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Human Versatility I
Human Versatility II
Human Versatility III


Saves:Saves: Fort Rflx Will
25 40 28
Monk 7 5 5 5
Rogue 13 4 8 4
Stat Bonus 0 4 14 6
Head of Good Fortune 2 2 2 2
Resist Item +3 3 3 3
BullHeaded 1 n/a n/a 1
(Greater) Heroism 4 4 4 4
HE Dilettante:Paladin 2 2 2
Alchemical 1 1 1


Hit Points: Bare Max
Hit Points 381 475
Heroic Durability 20 20
Argonessen Favor 10 10
Constitution Bonus 80 80
Monk 7 56 56
Rogue 13 78 78
Toughness 1 22 22
Racial Toughness 20 20
Aid OFF 18
Virtue OFF 20
Insp Great. OFF 20
G Heroism ON 16
False Life (Sp) OFF 20
False Life (It) Grtr 30 30
Shroud Item I+II+III 45 45
Minos Legens ON 20 20



Armor Class: Stndg Sbuff Max
AC 63 69 80
Base 10 10 10
Shield 4 4 4
Dex Bonus 14 14 14
Combat Expertise 5 5 5
Dodge 1 1 1
Barkskin Potion 3 5
Recitation OFF 2
Inspire Heroism OFF 4
Protection (+1-5)/SoF (+4) +4 4 4 4
Paladin Aura 5
Haste ON 1 1
Armor Bracers 8 8 8 8
Icy Raiment ON 4 4 4
Alchemical Bonus 1 1 1 1
Insight Bonus 4 4 4 4
Monk Wisdom Bonus 6 6 6
Monk AC Bonus 2 2 2



Attack / Damage: +Dmg
Attack 35 35 40 40 45 11
BAB 14 14 19 19 24
AB: Dexterity 14 14 14 14 14 6
Weapon Bonus +5 5 5 5 5 5 5
Two Weapon Fighting -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
Combat Expertise -5 -5 -5 -5 -5
Spectral Gloves 4 4 4 4 4 n/a
Greater/Heroism ON 4 4 4 4 4 n/a
Haste ON 1 1 1 1 1 n/a


Skills:Skills DD OL Srch Spot Hide MS Haggle UMD Intmd Bal Jump Tmbl Conc
54 63 48 51 32 32 43 48 69 43 18 26 26
Ranks 23 21 23 23 23 23 23 23 4 4 16
Stat Bonus 3(INT) 14(DEX) 3(INT) 6(WIS) 14(DEX) 14(DEX) 8(CHA) 8(CHA) 8(CHA) 14(DEX) 6(STR) 14(DEX) 4(CON)
Racial Bonus 1 1 0 0 0 0
Feat(s) SF 3
Feat(s) 2
Enhancement(s) 0 0 0 0 2 2 0 n/a 4 0 2 2 0
Item 15 15 15 15 10 10 5 15
Thieves Tools +5 7 7
(Greater) Heroism 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Head of Good Fortune 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Monk Way of Enh 0 2 0
Shroud Skills 6 6 6

Max Skills
Skills DD OL Srch Spot Hide MS Haggle UMD Intmd Bal Jump Tmbl Conc
60 69 54 57 38 38 49 54 75 49 24 32 32
Base 54 63 48 51 32 32 43 48 69 43 18 26 26
Human Versatility IV 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
Inspire Confidence 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2


Equipment:RagDoll
Armor Icy Raiments
Shield
Goggles Tharnes Goggles
Helmet Minos Legens / Muffled Veneer
Necklace Shroud Air CHA Skills
Trinket BloodStone / Head of Good Fortune
Cloak Shroud HP
Belt Con-GFL
Gloves Epic Spectral Gloves / 7-Fingered Gloves
Boots Striding / FF / Shroud Immunities
Ring1 TOD - Cha / Dex / Dex
Ring2 TOD -Wix / Cha / Cha
Bracers Leviks



Spreadsheet (http://download.skullreaver.net/build_aexicas_TR.xlsx) - Skills breakdown by level are on 'Sheet1'

[Eldamir]

A 2 Paladin splash wouldn't hurt him too badly either though for all that .. 12r/6m/2p ..

if i get some more time, i'll gin that out too..

edit: Ultimately, the difference boils down to

the half-elf dilettante: fighter is made redundant by paladin 1
saves go up by +8 across the board
unbuffed and self-buffed AC increase by 1
-1d6 sneak attack
Lose 2nd opportunist (or improved evasion if you go that route)
+4 hit points
+1 BAB
Some skills get a bit of a hit, but in general, the important ones don't take a hit on it

[moorewr]

A 2 Paladin splash wouldn't hurt him too badly either though for all that .. 12r/6m/2p ..

if i get some more time, i'll gin that out too..

If you were aiming for max self-buffed AC you'd want the Pally levels.

Side subject: the Paladin Dilettante feat actually looks fairly useful on a build where you'd start with >=13 CHA.. +2 to all saves gratis...

[Eldamir]

If you were aiming for max self-buffed AC you'd want the Pally levels.

Side subject: the Paladin Dilettante feat actually looks fairly useful on a build where you'd start with >=13 CHA.. +2 to all saves gratis...

true - plus, if you were going with short-swords (get them as Ki weapons with the Ninja Spy) you really don't need the fighter dilettante feat anyway..

will change that out and adjust the saves

[Eldamir]

nother side note: newest incarnation of Firefox broke pasting tabs into posts.. makes them spaces... off to Chrome i go :/

[Aexicas]

...Well, I feel stupid now. XD

I didn't think intim was actually part of the rogue list XD By the looks of the build you put up, I really don't think I'd have to change Aex too much overall. Tweaks to stats, here and there, but, it shouldn't be too bad.

Thanks for all the input, guys; so far, Aex 2.0 has gone pretty well (survivable, and all that, and not -too- spongey, unless I forget Ninja concealment), so, Aex 2.5 probably will be a walk in the part to 2nd TR, moreso due to the lack of a con hit and extra saves, I'd think. And HV. Mmm, HV.

*works quick draw into the build*

[Eldamir]

well .. there are two feats there dedicated to intim -- drop bullheaded for quick draw.

honestly, i'm not sure what the numbers for endgame intim need to be at these days .. now that i've given up on having a viable intim - by the time i level an intimer up, something happens so that he's not viable anymore :/

[Bunker]

http://housetharashk.net/htforum/showthread.php?t=2667